From: "John Zube" To: References: <200109140050.RAA73741@theadvocates.org> Subject: 010922Re: Terror Attack: On two points usually neglected, even by libertariansn See my appended reply to Kadmon. - J.Z. Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 01:27:57 +1000 Organization: Libertarian Microfiche Publishing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 ----- Original Message ----- From: Advocates for Self-Government To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:50 AM Subject: Terror Attack: Libertarian Responses and Actions > > Dear Liberator Online subscriber, > > Like everyone else, we at the Advocates were stunned and horrified by > the terrorist acts of September 11. > > This was nothing less than an assault on everything that libertarians > value, cherish and strive for: liberty, peace, free trade, civil > liberties, justice, reason, and, indeed, civilization itself. > > I'm sure that some of you reading this had family or friends who > personally suffered or died in this tragedy. We extend our deepest > condolences. Know that you are in our thoughts and prayers. > > Since the outbreak of this horror, people have written and called to ask > us questions like: > > * What is the libertarian response to this tragedy? > * What are prominent libertarians saying about it? > * What can I personally do? > > To help answer these and similar questions, the Advocates for > Self-Government has created a special crisis Web page of statements, > resources, and suggested activities. > > We will update this continually as new information and resources become > known to us. The Web address is at the end of this letter. > > Now more than ever, the voices of liberty are needed desperately, and > will be needed in the future as the political aspects of this awful > event unfold. > > With almost 60,000 Liberator Online subscribers around the world getting > this email message, we together can make a real difference. I urge each > of you to consider doing at least one -- and preferably more -- of the > activities suggested at this page. > > Every act of kindness, every act to protect freedom, is vitally > important today and in the days ahead. > > Please visit our crisis page. Take from there what is useful to you, > share it with your friends, and do what you believe is best to help > America and the world deal with this tragedy. > > Liberty is the best hope for the world to avoid such incidents in the > future. Thanks again for being a Liberator Online subscriber, and for > being one of the precious people who truly cares about liberty. > > The Web address for our new crisis page: > http://www.theadvocates.org/terrorism.html. > > > Sincerely, > > Sharon Harris > President, Advocates for Self-Government > ============== TerrorismKadmonTXT ---- Original Message ----- From: cliff kadmon To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 2:52 AM Subject: [libnetd] We will have justice, but let's not kill any more innocents There are no words that can relieve the horror of what the world has seen today. Indeed, there are no words to describe the depth of the horror and suffering experienced by the people on those airline flights, in the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon; their families and friends, bystanders, and in fact the millions of people who witnessed these horrifying events. We are stunned. We are saddened. We are sickened. We are angry! We want blood. But before we get too carried away, let's PLEASE not go off half-cocked and start blowing up innocent civilians and aspirin factories. Despite the anti-American protests you see on TV, most people in the world, of all cultures, colors, and creeds, just want to live and let live - like you and me. Find the actual guilty parties and drop a bomb on their heads, or send in a team of Special Ops assassins, or drag 'em behind a Humvee - but if we go killing innocents (again) we will be sinking to the level of the demonic cowards who started this war today. Let this terrible event strengthen our resolve to support freedom and justice, not become an excuse to abandon our moral high-ground and add hate to hate and violence to violence. When the dust clears, let them see us still standing proudly. Angry, but restrained. With our eyes on justice, rather than vengeance. Let's not get any more innocents killed. Our first duties are to help the victims and to understand exactly what and how this happened. Only then should we turn our focus to the scum who have invited our wrath. Please help America keep her head. Pass this along. ----------------------------- "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common ense." --Buddha http://free.freespeech.org/unlimitedfreedom _________________________________________________________________ Make use of our member's page at Yahoo. There, you can upload files of interest for group members to read, etc. You can even initiate polls or chat with other members. We have a calendar section for you to let other members know of important events. Use these resources, they are free. Our membership homepage is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libnetd Please visit Destiny Central for news, features, and freedom enhancing tools. Destiny Central is a website of Destiny Worldwide Associates Foundation, which is dedicated to success and freedom. Visit the Foundation at: http://www.destiny-worldwide.net Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ============================================================================ === The Advocates for Self-government Re: 1.) Individual Responsibility vs. "Collective Responsibility" (By the "standards" of the terrorists the innocents are guilty - and all too many share such misconceptions. 2.) Exterritorial autonomy for volunteer communities (panarchism) vs. territorialism. The latter breeds terrorists, civil wars, wars and violent revolutions but prevents peaceful and minority group "one-man-revolutions" and political, economic and social experiments by dissenters and thus drives some of them even towards terrorism. Only in James R. Elwood's recent ISIL letter (of 20.9.01) was there at least a hint that exterritorial or non-geographical decentralization would be required as well to cope with and prevent terrorism. PIOT, John Zube, 22.9.01. ========================================================== Dear Cliff, sure, go after any terrorists who kill innocent people and do so without any "scruples" - and without killing any more innocents. But THAT is by far not enough. For every day new terrorists are being bred or conditioned by the conditions and ideas of our times. I do not even know which particular events you referred to, since I do read papers and watch or listen to the news only rarely. But similar events occur every day somewhere in the world, on a large or small scale, as official or private crimes with victims. (On Sept. 11 I was on my few visits to Sydney and even less likely to pay attention to TV, radio and newspaper news. - J.Z., 17.9.01.) The terrorists - as well as all governments preparing for wars with ABC mass murder or anti-people devices, or holocaust "weapons", do all act on the "principle" of collective responsibility of ALL people, of a race, faith, nationality, colour etc., for the actions of their rulers or of SOME people among them. That principle is almost generally taken for granted, especially in international relations. So much so that it is rare questioned at all, publicly, far less thoroughly criticized. Not even in the Bible, where even its various Gods do act quite thoughtlessly on this "principle" and so do its believers, especially in the Old Testament. In our time this principle is largely supported by territorial organization and the thinking or rather non-thinking that it has led to, e.g. total war, with scorched earth "warfare" or area bombing, the 2 bombs used against 2 Japanese cities and to war "games" & training practices with ABC mass murder devices. The opposite principle, that of exterritorial organization, in volunteer communities that are only exterritorially autonomous, was even longer practised by humans - not only generally by animals and plants - than was territorial nationalism and statism. But that tradition is largely forgotten by most scholars and writers on politics and only tiny traces remain, e.g. the Order of the Maltese and diplomatic immunity and personal laws in private litigation, in some countries. Nevertheless, over the years I managed to compile a 56 page bibliography on this subject and thorough searching by many others would unearth more such literature. Territorialism leads to wars, revolutions, civil wars, despotism, totalitarianism, terrorism and exploitation. It provides the motives and the means for them as well as the targets - and excuses or rationalizations. Worse still, it keeps our "thinking" within all too narrow boundaries, ignoring the alternatives, although, so to speak, only the other side of the "coin" of "territorialism" is simply to be intelligently considered. Exterritorial autonomy, for volunteer communities, on the other hand, would lead to lasting peace, one-man and self-responsible "revolutions", based upon individual secessionism, the survival of any wanted and supported status quo - for its volunteers, and the realization of any reform - for those who desire it at their expense and risk. It would provide no motives for terrorism or ABC mass murder devices - and simply eliminate their targets and busy dissenters with doing for or to themselves whatever they like to do - at their own risk and expense. It would merely introduce freedom of action and self-responsibility or experimental freedom in the three major spheres where they have so far remained territorially suppressed by territorial states, the political, economic and social spheres. This experimental and individual liberty and right was not yet recognized and is rarely mentioned in the literature despite of the enormous precedent set by religious liberty or religious tolerance, to the extent that it was introduced anywhere (I know, in some parts of the world it is still not realized.). Also in spite of the historical evidence for exterritorialism, which has been all too much ignored by most "scientists" of the social sciences. Over the years I wrote 2 peace books on this subject - that I had to self-publish, within my PEACE PLANS series - and they remain record non-sellers, seeing public opinion on such subjects. You can find them in PEACE PLANS 16-18 and 61-63 in English and the latter title in the German original in PP 399-401. I am compiling an encyclopaedia on this subject of a quite different kind of "politics" or political organization and conditions, that would result from "exterritorialism". It consists so far only of a materials collection, coming to 24 volumes on 24 microfiche, with the set being titled ON PANARCHY. For an introduction to this kind of thinking and historically practised "utopia" and future free, just, prosperous and peaceful society, see the classical two essays on this subject which are appended to my website. After a few more ON PANARCHY volumes the lot is to be pulled together by a detailed alphabetical index into a special encylopaedia. . In the meantime, I do also collect any articles, essays that criticize collective responsibility and try to embody them in my PEACE PLANS series, although only on microfiche. Hopefully, sooner or later all such material will also be made available on CD-ROMs, CVDs etc. and online. So far most of it is mostly more or less "buried", unknown, ignored or unappreciated. If most of the world would no longer subscribe to "collective responsibility", territorialism and statism, most terrorists wouldn't, either. That would disarm them, as far as their motivation is concerned, much more so than any police and other military forces could. While one could well imagine some historical Pope possessing and using nuclear devices against heathens or heretics, could you imagine a MODERN pope doing so? His faithful are mostly living peacefully among the Protestants, atheists and other true believers or non-believers and would, inevitably, be murdered as well. (No MODERN pope would share the sentiments of one of the infamous inquisitors, who is supposed to have said: "Kill them all! God will recognize his own!") Alas, this individualistic, tolerant, experimental and liberating way of countering terrorism isn't publicly discussed by any involved with counter-terrorism or merely regretting such acts, as sympathetic spectators, of their numerous victims. Not so numerous, by the way, if you compare the actions of national and international private terrorists with the national and international terrorism committed officially or secretly by territorial governments. See the figures on this compiled by Prof. Rummell. But that they are relatively small scale terrorists compared with the official ones, does not excuse a single one of them. Both, the private and official terrorists can be most efficiently disarmed and enlightened and further such crimes prevented ONLY by a thorough application of exterritorialist principles and practices - and for this purpose they have first of all to be sufficiently and publicly discussed. This has not yet happened, not even on the Internet. (If you should know of another approach that is rightful, rational and realistic, please, DO let me know.) To each the government - or the non-governmental society - of his or her dreams! That is the essence of the principle and practice of panarchism, which would lead to present governments being quite gradually and peacefully replaced by various panarchies, while their own status quo would be reduced to that of a remaining volunteer community - which would not have any significant dissenters left among its members. Not even political party squabbles and campaigns would remain. Among many other things, this would mean freedom for monetary and financial experiments that could almost anywhere, and under almost any conditions, very rapidly end unemployment, sales difficulties, inflation and stagflation and make immigrants and foreign investments and foreign trade welcome rather than hated and lead to growing prosperity and continuous boom conditions anywhere where people want to live and work and maintain themselves and their dependents. PIOT, John Zube ============================================================================ === John Zube, LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING, P.O. Box 52 or 35 Oxley St., Berrima, NSW 2577, Australia, e-mail: jzube@acenet.com.au Tel. (02) 48 771 436. No FAX! Website: www.acenet.com.au/~jzube LMP's website offers a 2,000 pages (almost 5 Mbs) guide to the first 1545 of the 1667 PEACE PLANS issues that LMP has produced since 1977, containing, on about 500,000 pages, libertarian and anarchist books, pamphlets, magazines, newsletters, dissertations, bibliographies, directories, indexes, essays & articles, letter, review & leaflet collections, etc., with an average of over 300 pages per microfiche: $ 1 cash each, post-free for orders of at least 10, or 2 International Reply Coupons or $ 2 other non-cash, with small cheques not accepted. Has any other individual published more freedom texts, more cheaply, in any medium? Probably Dr. David Hart, Adelaide, has, recently, when he published, before he heard about my CD-ROM initiative, 4 CD-ROMs containing classical liberal writings and he has over 2 Gbs in readiness for further such issues. Anyone else? A supplementary LMP list for Peace Plans 1546-1620 can be found on: http://butterbach.net/lmp/lmp_sup.htm ============================================================================ WILL 300 LIBERTARIAN CD-ROMS BE ENOUGH? HOW MANY LIBERTARIANS DOES IT TAKE TO FILL A CD-ROM? How many libertarian Mbs can and will you contribute towards a complete libertarian publishing, library & information service on ca. 300 CD-ROMs, with all the desirable reference works, linked, like the Encyclopaedia Britannica on CD-ROM, to Internet sites? Get entered in the still small but growing list of interested people for the cooperative filling of CD-ROMs, all produced only upon demand. They are, currently, still the cheapest, easiest, most powerful, wide-spread & durable enough alternative medium for all freedom books etc. For further details see: www.geocities.com/libertarian_library/ or write to me. - PIOT, John Zube, Libertarian Microfiche Publishing: www.acenet.com.au/~jzube & http://butterbach.net/lmp/lmp_sup.htm - jzube@acenet.com.au - or: P.O. Box 52 (35 Oxley St.) Berrima, NSW 2577, Australia, Tel.: (02) 48771436. No fax! ============================================================================