@head1 Page ## John Zube, 7 Oxley St., Berrima, NSW 2577, Australia - 19 Dec. 89 - Greco19.d89 Thomas H. Greco, Jr., 314 Garson Ave, Rochester, N.Y. 14 609 Dear Thomas, I finally came across your letter of June 2, 89, again, with the missing page 5 of your article on Stamp Scrip by Irving Fisher. Thanks. Overloading of individual with chosen work could be reduced if sufficient division of labour were introduced into our hobby activities. That presupposes, among other things, a sufficiently detailed address listing or network organization in which all the special interest and activity details are noted, too. When this is done then there will be less wasted mass mailing outreach work and costs and opinion exchanges will be more fruitful and mutual and reqire much less paper or film. Regarding my criticism of your booklet "Money and Debt". You are right in saying that I should be "a bit gentler with my allies". However, in a discussion or letter exchange, I do often get carried away by dissention on particular points, striving towards a pedantic perfectionism. If others put my own writings under a magnifying glass then they would, usually find even more minor flaws. As a semi-excuse, I can presently only offer that I am involved in attempting to alphabetize ideas and arguments and references on monetary freedom and in this I welcome positive and negative positions from anyone. Sooner or later the ideas will battle it out sufficiently, in a suitable arena. With my alphabetical listing I attempted to address a lot of other monetary reform writings than your own. Thus my remarks were not directed especially against you or your booklet. I wanted to integrate them with several other alphabetized files on the same subject. Seemingly minor and technical points regarding the issue, value maintenance and reflux of notes are rather important - when they are mostly overlooked by experimenters. We expect aircraft windows and doors to be airtight. Issue and reflux techniques should be airtight, too. "She will be alright, Jack" - attitudes or : "We will cross that bridge, when we come to it!", can lead to disasters. For instance : Failures to distinguish between different types of interest have led to unwarranted attacks on all interest. Failures to distinguish between short-term and long term covers have led to depreciation of notes. People have failed to distinguish between dearths and inflations. All paper money issues of governments have been indiscriminately attacked by some, without regard to their tax foundation, sometimes their gold value reckoning and absence of legal tenders, which made them into something close ( but due to the coercion of taxation not eqqual to ) private clearing certificates and a stable value basis. "The" gold standard has been attacked or defended, as if only one were possible, without distinguishing even between gold as means of payment and a standard of value only and without the x variations of either. My notes were not intended as a close criticism of your booklet. Your booklet was just an occasion for me to set down some notes. Your thinking does presently revolve around your booklet. Mine didn't. I am glad to hear, again, that we are as close on basics : the advocacy of free money and banking and of voluntary associations. At the present state of public opinion that basic stance can hardly be stated too often, especially when advocatig particular reforms - which other people do always advocate in an intolerant way, as impositions upon all dissenters. Yes, such a radically different stand belongs into the introduction to any particular proposal. Your eagerness for others to propose competing arrangements, so long as they do not interfere with people's freedom to choose, should be communicated, frequently. Even the relatively simple faith of Christians does seem to require weekly re-enforcements, if not daily or hourly ones. Like you, I would like to see as much information as possible accessible on paper, on line, on microfiche, on the principles and logic and techniques of the exchange process, and the the credit and investment processes, which stretch the exchange process over a longer period, so that foolish experiments with potentially destructive consequences can be avoided by those taking the trouble to look up these references. I'm glad to hear that you intend to fight what you consider to be usury and harmful usury at that, not by prohibitions but by introducing the fullest possible freedom. I do likewise expect that monopoly interest will disappear then and only natural interest charges, corresponding to real services, will remain. Only our evaluatin of the significance of usury differ. I find the restrictions upon which the monopoly interest percentage is based, much more harmful and wrong than this interest fraction. The debtor who cannot get a credit, not even at "usurious" rates, is really in trouble. "Money as information" and my "outburst" against it: I do not remember what I said then and am presently unwilling ( and perhaps unable, the print- out may be at my micrographic agency and my disks are not fully listed yet ) to look it up. It reminds me in its generality of several Christian sayings like : "Christ is truth, Christ is life, Christ is light!" E.g. : "Money matters", "Money is freedom", "Money is life", are hardly more informative. In short, "money is information" is not informative enough for me. That money conveys certain kinds of information was hardly ever doubted by anyone, any more than the fact that letters, articles, magazines and books convey certain kinds of information. But what kind of information does money convey, how does it do so and it which way could it do so best? Here many disagreements follow. Thus I am not satisfied with such a general term as a "discovery" and a statement. Perhaps no one has more clearly, extensively and earlier written down the clearing information aspects of money as Stephen Cowell has, in 1859, in The Ways and Means of Payment, Reprints of Economic Classics, Kelly, N.Y., 1965, which I intend to microfilm, too. This book has 656 pages, was written by a level-headed and thoughtful businessman or "practicioner" of money and probably still does not say all that could and should be said on the subject. Trying to substitute for such volumes with "informational" slogans like "money is information" is just not good enough for me - in spite of my love for slogans for liberty and my extensive collection of them. Any generalization leads to understanding only if it follows from knowledge of many of most of all the details involved. But it cannot provide detailed knowledge via deductions from it. It does not embrace but has cut out all details so that it becomes a rather empty term. Primitives largely attempt to regulate their lives and those of others via "word magic". I find too many traces of this attitude remaining in our supposedly higher civilization. People, rather than mastering words, are mastered by them, as G. C. Lichtenberg says. If people try to do that only in poetic attempts and in songs, that is well enough. But nominalism in thinking and oral or written expressins is extremely dangerous or at least misleading and misinforming or uninforming, although always, to some extent, unavoidable. Like you, I also attempt to bridge the gap between the grass-roots monetary freedom movement and the academic community - and have to, since I do not belong to either. Could I show you where your logic and or facts are wrong? Sorry, no! My time is taken up by getting as many as possible of writings like your own permanently on record and available in cheap duplicates upon demand. Furthermore, I attempt to respond to, or summarize, in encyclopaedic form - as far as my limited knowledge goes - all monetary freedom writings. Otherwise, one can get endlessly involved in one against one confrontations, which, like debates, have only limited enlightenment value for both sides. I know of largely fruitless attempts between highly intelligent and scholarly correspondents, to reduce their disagreements. Sometimes they even failed in decades of efforts. Often this happens mainly due to some terminological differences or unchecked premises. I rather attempt to get all significant points of view into the arena, for a "free for all", into the market for monetary experiments, into a continuing discussion process. I try to do my best to promote the establishment of such arenas, markets, experiments and opinion exchanges, micrographically and otherwise, and to do so largely apart and independent from the existing, conventional and usually far too restricted and expensive channels, arenas, markets and experimentation options, which appear to much much less suitable as nurseries and evaluators of new ideas. If you think that it is important to get out a comprehensive volume of your "transformational" ideas ( I hold that a systematic statement of most reformer's essential platform points would be helpful to others ), then making a listing, of most or all of your monetary freedom and other reformist writings, would be a good starting point. Such a list could at least be used as a checklist for getting more and more and finally all your reformist writings onto microfiche. If you attempted such a list, you would probably find that my reproductions so far cover only a small fraction of your output. The listing could be used by you to arrange the output, which you have achieved so far, in a more systematic form, in a anthology, one that might already come close to the comprehensive exposition you have in mind and one that would reveal to you remaining gaps. These you could then occasionally fill. If I did not appreciate your thoughts and writings and agreed with much of what you have to say, I would not have bothered to include so many of them in my series. I always thought you took that for granted. When one's positions are that close, I tend to think that compliments and praise are unnecessary, however warranted. My attacks on ideas or aspects or expressions of ideas and of arguments are never meant as attacks againt you or anyone as a person. I do always presume that the common aim of our efforts is to get somewhat closer to some truths that we consider to be important. I this particular effort I do not accept anyone's writings, least of all my own, as a "bible". Everything is open to question and criticism and to reformulation, striving towards perfection, in the full knowledge that it can never be achieved. When I am often the opposite to diplomatic, you can merely ascribe that character or behavioral flaw to my being little to not at all polished by social intercourse. My books don't complain when I mistreat them. Only I complain when I have to eliminate underlinings, question marks & marginal notes before filming them. I know of my tactlessness in discussions or correspondence but have not yet systematically fought it - although I have an extensive collection of sayings and wordings on how to not offend people, as well as of offensive remarks to avoid and some of shut up offensive remarks that sometimes seem necessary towards some, and intend to put it out, sooner or later, in handbook form. All these terms and phrases have not yet and automatically penetrated my talking and writing, no more so than the contents of my library has fully penetrated my brain. I would have to make the effort to learn them, like a strange vocabulary, until they become a second nature to me. I must admit that I have not as yet made this effort, however advisable it would be. ======================================================================================== I have finally booked a flight to US, UK, Germany and US and then back to Australia, starting 28 Feb. 90, with two touchdowns and likely stays planned for N.Y. I wanted to go to Buffalo and Toronto from there, anyhow and am glad to find that Rochester is in the neighbourhood. So far nothing but my arrival in LA on 1 March is fixed. All the rest are open bookings. Either on my in or out flight I hope to be able to see you for a few days and as many other important libertarians and libertarian information collectins as possible. Personal contact with some of my correspondents and collection of more material for microfilming, are my main priorities. Tourism, relaxation, luxuries and entertainment are out for me. I try to take my pleasures trough my work or hobbies. Thus I will spend my time, apart from travelling, talking, discussing, questioning, searching, copying and reading, mostly in libraries, special collections and bookshops. My funds are rather limited and I want to spend them rather on bringing out more microfiche than on hotel costs. Thus I hope to be able to stay mostly with some libertarians, just covering whatever my stay might cost them. I have portable sleeping gear with me, for inside use ( +20 C ). Some space for it and my luggage would be enough. If you know of anyone along or near enough to my my route, who would put up with me, for a day or eveu several days, this would be helpful. I would love to browse through their libraries, perhaps photocopy a title or two, talk shortly to individuals or groups on my favourte subjects : War prevention via individual liberties, panarchism, individual rights, monetary freedom, micrographics for libertarians, answer questions shortly and discuss such and related subjects much more, as long as people can stand it. I would especially like to find more people who live close to the major libertarian and anarchist library collections, and, naturally, libertarian writers with unpublished manuscripts. My air route so far, from which a few car, bus, rails and perhaps air deviations are intended : Honolulu, L.A., Phoenix, Denver, N.Y., London, Washington, N.Y., Detroit, Chicago, Green Bay (Wisconsin), Minneapolis/ St. Paul, L.A., Honololu. All except the first two are open bookings. From N.Y. I might deviate to Boston-Cambridge, to Buffalo and Rochester and Toronto. On the way back, from L.A. to San Francisco, Eugene and Seattle, probably by car. When stays become too expensive for me, no matter how attractive for my purposes a location might be, I will simply have to cut it short, hoping that I will later get wanted texts copied and sent by others. If I were an Esperanto fan, like Theo Megalli, my travelling would be much easier in this respect. He told me that of ca. 70 days in the U.S. he had to stay in a hotel only once or twice. I hope that I can get at least sometimes a cheap and spare room in a college, near one of the major collections that I am intersted in. I expect to be 2-6 months on the road or in the air. Perhaps you could mention my search for more contacts in one of your circulars. My phone here is (048) 771 436. My first and continuing contact in the U.S. will be Robert Sagehorn, Western Review Institute, P.O. Box 806, Chino, CA 91 708, tel. No., if any, unknown. Before my return trip through the U.S., I could be contacted via Siegfried Schwenke, Schoenstedtstr. 9, 1000 Berlin 44, Tel. (030) 681 1379. While I am away, my son Thomas will occasionally fulfill the few orders likely to arrive in the meantime. I have not yet heard of any to me interesting conferences that I might then be able to take in. A recent Melbourne contact, John Gibbins, much more in touch with the alternative scene than I am, promised me to send me information on all Australian monetary reform experiments, going on or being planned, but so far I have got only little information from him, mainly on the phone. He seemed so full of enthusiasm that I fear he will reach his burn-out point all to soon. He is in touch with various Australian Lets groups, for instance. My youngest, David, now running under the adopted name David Young, is on the road, often quite literally, in the U.S. since 27th of Nov. But he will contact few if any libertarians or monetary freedom advocates but, rather, people of the drop-out, health, longevity scene. Radicals of my type are still too conventional and compromising for him. He does not yet appreciate how much health and longevity concerns are also of interest to many libertarians. He is, moreover, still during the recovery period, from my point of view, from an involvement with the "universal consciousness" scene. Well, each hears and follows a somewhat different drummer and the metaphysical urge expresses itself in many strange ways. I may be able to include covers of some recent monetary freedom fiche, not yet available in duplicates, since the single quality microfilming operator at my agency has been and still is overloaded with commercial orders. PIOT, John.