From: "John Zube" To: References: Subject: 030506 Re:e-gold-forum: Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:18:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C313A8.0D565120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C313A8.0D565120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear X, "... to new sponsor ..." check out better English expressions for what = you propose! Not every newly coined term is a good enough exchange = medium for an idea - i.e., readily acceptable to others. None of them = are legal tender! once the e-gold advocates do get away from the ancient error = and wrong premise - - that gold-weight accounting and gold-weight = clearing do require, that gold-accounts and gold clearing = certificicates, and their electronic transfers - - are covered, in full = or partly, by actual stocks or reserves of metallic gold, rather than = using merely the market value of a gold weight unit as a value standard, = I would be interested.=20 The use of meters and liters, for instance, does not require that the = original standard measures, probably still stored in Paris, are = multiplied to the extent that any use of meters and liters is made in = any transaction. That they are sufficiently defined does suffice. For = gold reckoning a weight unit of grams or ounces, and multiples or = fractions of them would be best and clearest.=20 But merely repeating the ancient metallic redemptionist mistakes = (whether with gold or with silver) with the help of modern electronics = does not appeal to me at all.=20 What is essential for a sound gold standard is the pricing of goods, = services and debt relationships in gold weight values. Add to this free = and competitive private coinage and free and untaxed and unregulated = trading in gold.=20 Gold should be freely traded on a free gold market, should be a means of = exchange, in coined form, which a debtor may offer, if he has it, but = should not be a means of exchange that a creditor may demand from his = debtor or a note-holder from the bank that issued the note. Most = difficulties that arose from the old and best known of quite a number of = different types of gold-standard, arose from ignoring these common-sense = rules.=20 Even gold coins should not be legal tender under full monetary freedom, = in spite of the fact that most creditors would be only too glad if they = would be paid in this way. No monetary, currency, clearing and credit and securities legislation at = all and not taxes on any of them, either - nor on anything else. Full = monetary and financial freedom, instead of all to extensive and = prolonged monetary and financial despotism everywhere. Even gold is not good enough as an exclusive means of payment and as an = exclusive value standard. It may be the least evil value standard for a = long time to come still, but freedom in this sphere does also require = free choice of value standards, realized by the right of everyone to = refuse the value standards and exchange media of others - or to discount = them.=20 Moreover, since most trading is local trading and most exchange media = required are thus a local currency, the primary requirement for gold = standard reckoning is the pricing of local goods, services and contracts = in gold weight units and their settlement, quite independent of the = governments exclusive and forced means of exchange and exclusive and = forced value standard, in local, privately or cooperatively produced = exchange media, clearing certificates and accounts (whether on paper, = plastic or merely electronic), whose par value or discounted value comes = up to the agreed upon gold weight values.=20 My own "international trading" is confined to the occasional sale of = some of my microfiche and the purchase of a few books. For most others = their international trade will be almost as much limited.=20 For international transactions usually much larger international = clearing certificates would be needed and possible, based on whatever = raw materials, goods or services are traded in international trade, and = issued abd redeemed by their providers. That would be their = "shop-foundation". Most people would never see such means of exchange.=20 An exceptions are information transfer payments, e.g. for music, = software, CDs. For these is might be best if their providers came to accept a common = exchange medium and value standard, based on these real consumer values = offered, rather than on some gold stock kept somewhere. They, too, could = provide an extensive "readiness to accept foundation" for their notes, = credits, accounts, reckoning in gold weight values. But, e.g., a ticket money for dairy or bakery or meat or greengrocer = supplies offered in the USA would have very little value for me, unless = I had a contact there, who could use them and provide me with what I = need here. But with this we would come back all too close to mere = barter. Theoretically a clearing centre for such local currencies could = be established, but let us start with the first step: establishing such = local currencies first, especially there where there is mass = unemployment or rapid inflation. World-wide and competing monetary arrangements could come later. They = are not the most needed immediate step for most people.=20 But under current conditions governments might at any time interfere = with electronic transactions, for tax reasons, to uphold their more or = less wrongful copyrights acts, or for their security reasons or = pretences. And any goods sent are also exposed to the risk of custom = duties, postal theft or official confiscation, which are e.g. avoided in = local cash deals. Moreover, the code-crackers of governments are government or = tax-financed and private code users, by the very fact that they use = code, attract unwanted government attention. Cash, as long as no chips or bar codes are inserted on each note, is = still more secure in most cases than are electronic transfers. And if = banks are involved, then cash payments are also cheaper.=20 Details on such local and international gold value reckoning options can = be found in the writings of Ulrich von Beckerath and Prof. Edgard = Milhaud, which I have reproduced in my series on microfiche and, partly, = digitized, e.g. PEACE PLANS 1-20, 41. They were written under the assumption that government restrictions in = this sphere could either be repealed or ignored or overthrown in a = monetary revolution.=20 Goldbugs, the electronic ones, too, were so far uninterested in these = alternatives.=20 Monetary enlightenment, as far as full monetary freedom is concerned, is = for most people still only in its intial first stages.=20 Currently, I am digitizing the post WW II correspondence between Ulrich = von Beckerath, writer of 3 books on the subject of monetary freedom - = reproduced in PEACE PLANS 9-11 and Henry Meulen, author of "Free = Banking". The latter was also microfiched in my series, likewise all the = issues of his THE INDIVIDUALIST that I could lay my hands on. Alas, = Meulen's monetary freedom ideas were still rather limited and flawed, as = this correspondence reveals.=20 One of my aims is to get all such literature combined and published on = one or a few CD-ROMs. Only once all of it is thus easily accessible can = a really fruitful discussion begin and work towards an encyclopaedia on = Free Banking or Monetary Freedom.=20 Some lengthly jottings towards such a handbook you can find on = www..butterbach.net/freebank.htm My two libertarian peace books, online through www.panarchism.info/ are = also dealing with monetary freedom as an important precondition for = achieving peace in freedom a.s.a.p. Thomas Greco also produces a website on this subject. Another one, by = others, more liberal towards all monetary freedom approaches and longer = texts on them, is in the process of being set up by 2 of my contacts What made you write to me? PIOT, John Zube, (Panarchy In Our Time, or: To each the government or non-governmental = society of his or her dreams. - That also applies to payment and value = standard communities.) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING & Research Centre for Monetary & Financial Freedom Libertarian Peace = Plans, Panarchism, Productive Coops, Free Trade, Libertarian Defence, = Liberation Revolution & Militias, Alternative Media & Enlightenment = Options, a Libertarian Encyclopaedia, Archive of Ideas, Bibliographies, = Abstracts, Indexes, Definitions, Classification Schemes, Directories, = Reviews, Slogans for Liberty Encyclopaedia, Refutations Encyclopaedia, = etc., on the road towards a complete and permanent Libertarian Library, = Publishing and Information Service, making optimal use of all affordable = and powerful alternative media so far vastly under-utilised for = libertarian texts, like microfiche, floppy disks, CD-ROMs and DVDs, to = bring about a genuinely cultural revolution & sufficient enlightenment, = together with PIOT: Panarchy In Our Time or: To each the government or = non-governmental society of his or her dreams. John Zube, LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING, P.O. Box 52 or 35 Oxley = St., Berrima, NSW 2577, Australia, e-mail: jzube@acenet.com.au Tel. (02) = 48 771 436. No FAX!=20 Main website: www.acenet.com.au/~jzube It lists alphabetically the = authors of PEACE PLANS Nos. 1-1545 & offers and introduction to = microfilming & some essays on monetary freedom and panarchism. Total = nearly 5 Mbs. Supplementary lists, alphabetically and by PEACE PLANS numbers, covering = PEACE PLANS 1546 - 1768, on 5.8 Mbs, are now available at = www.butterbach.net/lmp/ Cross references in these lists are still very = incomplete. LMP's main website offers a 2,000 pages guide to the PEACE PLANS issues = that LMP has produced since 1977, containing, on about 500,000 pages, = libertarian and anarchist books, pamphlets, magazines, newsletters, = dissertations, bibliographies, directories, indexes, essays & articles, = letter, review & leaflet collections, etc., with an average of over 300 = pages per microfiche: $ 1 cash each, post-free for orders of at least = 10, or 2 International Reply Coupons or $ 2 other non-cash, with small = cheques not accepted.=20 Has any other individual published more freedom texts, more cheaply, in = any medium?=20 Many of the PEACE PLANS in the Supplementary List do contain material = compiled from websites, with their links. My thus recorded survey of = libertarian sites is still very incomplete and I would prefer to see = such a compilation on CD-ROMs.=20 Lists on the libertarian CD-ROM project are on = www.butterbach.net/project.htm If you want to be entered in an update = list, please contact me by e-mail, with the entry you prefer for = yourself. An alphabetical compilation on free banking or monetary freedom, 2.6 = Mbs, is available on www.butterbach/freebank.htm A small step towards = an encyclopaedia on Free Banking. Your entries are needed! All of PEACE PLANS 1-20 & 61-63, 183 & 399-401 are now available in = small batches via e-mail, until they can be offered on a website or = CD-ROM or both.=20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: aqohmrd@yahoo.co.uk=20 To: JZUBE=20 Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Hello I want invite you to new sponsor e-goldforum !=20 Please wisit egoldforum.org for more information=20 Thank you=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C313A8.0D565120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear X,
 
"... to new sponsor ..." check out better English expressions for = what you=20 propose! Not every newly coined term is a good enough exchange medium = for an=20 idea - i.e., readily acceptable to others. None of them are legal = tender!
 
           once = the=20 e-gold advocates do get away from the ancient error and wrong premise - = - =20 that gold-weight accounting and gold-weight clearing do require, that=20 gold-accounts and gold clearing certificicates, and their electronic = transfers -=20 -  are covered, in full or partly, by actual stocks or = reserves=20 of metallic gold, rather than using merely the market value of a = gold=20 weight unit as a value standard, I would be interested.
 
The use of meters and liters, for instance, does not require that = the=20 original standard measures, probably still stored in Paris, are = multiplied to=20 the extent that any use of meters and liters is made in any transaction. = That=20 they are sufficiently defined does suffice. For gold reckoning a weight = unit of=20 grams or ounces, and multiples or fractions of them would be best and = clearest.=20
 
But merely repeating the ancient metallic redemptionist mistakes = (whether=20 with gold or with silver) with the help of modern electronics does = not=20 appeal to me at all.
 
What is essential for a sound gold standard is the pricing of = goods,=20 services and debt relationships in gold weight values. Add to this free = and=20 competitive private coinage and free and untaxed and unregulated trading = in=20 gold.
 
Gold should be freely traded on a free gold market, should be a = means of=20 exchange, in coined form, which a debtor may offer, if he has it, but = should not=20 be a means of exchange that a creditor may demand from his = debtor or a=20 note-holder from the bank that issued the note. Most difficulties that = arose=20 from the old and best known of quite a number of different types of=20 gold-standard, arose from ignoring these common-sense rules.
Even gold coins should not be legal tender under full monetary = freedom, in=20 spite of the fact that most creditors would be only  too glad if = they would=20 be paid in this way.
 
No monetary, currency, clearing and credit and securities = legislation at=20 all and not taxes on any of them, either - nor on anything else. Full = monetary=20 and financial freedom, instead of all to extensive and prolonged = monetary and=20 financial despotism everywhere.
 
Even gold is not good enough as an exclusive means of = payment and=20 as an exclusive value standard. It may be the least evil value standard = for a=20 long time to come still, but freedom in this sphere does also require = free=20 choice of value standards, realized by the right of everyone to refuse = the value=20 standards and exchange media of others - or to discount them.
 
Moreover, since most trading is local trading and most exchange = media=20 required are thus a local currency, the primary requirement for gold = standard=20 reckoning is the pricing of local goods, services and contracts in gold = weight=20 units and their settlement, quite independent of the governments = exclusive and=20 forced means of exchange and exclusive and forced value standard, in=20 local, privately or cooperatively produced exchange media, = clearing=20 certificates and accounts (whether on paper, plastic or merely = electronic),=20 whose par value or discounted value comes up to the agreed upon gold = weight=20 values.
 
My own "international trading" is confined to the occasional sale = of some=20 of my microfiche and the purchase of a few books. For most others their=20 international trade will be almost as much limited.
 
For international transactions usually much larger international = clearing=20 certificates would be needed and possible, based on whatever raw = materials,=20 goods or services are traded in international trade, and issued abd = redeemed by=20 their providers. That would be their "shop-foundation". Most people = would never=20 see such means of exchange.
An exceptions are information transfer payments, e.g. for music, = software,=20 CDs.
For these is might be best if their providers came to accept a = common=20 exchange medium and value standard, based on these real consumer values = offered,=20 rather than on some gold stock kept somewhere. They, too, could provide = an=20 extensive "readiness to accept foundation" for their notes, credits, = accounts,=20 reckoning in gold weight values.
 
But, e.g., a ticket money for dairy or bakery or meat or = greengrocer=20 supplies offered in the USA would have very little value for me, unless = I had a=20 contact there, who could use them and provide me with what I need = here. But=20 with this we would come back all too close to mere = barter. Theoretically a=20 clearing centre for such local currencies could be established, but = let us=20 start with the first step: establishing such local currencies first, = especially=20 there where there is mass unemployment or rapid inflation.
 
World-wide and competing monetary arrangements could come = later. They=20 are not the most needed immediate step for most people. 
 
But under current conditions governments might at any time = interfere with=20 electronic transactions, for tax reasons, to uphold their more or less = wrongful=20 copyrights acts, or for their security reasons or pretences. And any = goods sent=20 are also exposed to the risk of custom duties, postal theft or official=20 confiscation, which are e.g. avoided in local cash deals.
 
Moreover, the code-crackers of governments are government or = tax-financed=20 and private code users, by the very fact that they use code, attract = unwanted=20 government attention.
 
Cash, as long as no chips or bar codes are inserted on each note, = is still=20 more secure in most cases than are electronic transfers. And if = banks are=20 involved, then cash payments are also cheaper.
 
Details on such local and international gold value reckoning = options can be=20 found in the writings of Ulrich von Beckerath and Prof. Edgard Milhaud, = which I=20 have reproduced in my series on microfiche and, partly, digitized, e.g. = PEACE=20 PLANS  1-20, 41.
 
They were written under the assumption that government restrictions = in this=20 sphere could either be repealed or ignored or overthrown in a monetary=20 revolution.
 
Goldbugs, the electronic ones, too, were so far uninterested in = these=20 alternatives.
 
Monetary enlightenment, as far as full monetary freedom is = concerned, is=20 for most people still only in its intial first stages.
 
Currently, I am digitizing the post WW II correspondence between = Ulrich von=20 Beckerath, writer of 3 books on  the subject of monetary = freedom -=20 reproduced in PEACE PLANS 9-11 and Henry Meulen, author of "Free = Banking".=20 The latter was also microfiched in my series, likewise all the issues of = his THE=20 INDIVIDUALIST that I could lay my hands on. Alas, Meulen's monetary = freedom=20 ideas were still rather limited and flawed, as this correspondence = reveals.=20
 
One of my aims is to get all such literature combined and published = on one=20 or a few CD-ROMs. Only once all of it is thus easily accessible can = a=20 really fruitful discussion begin and work towards an encyclopaedia on = Free=20 Banking or Monetary Freedom.
 
Some lengthly jottings towards such a handbook you can find on www..butterbach.net/free= bank.htm
 
My two libertarian peace books, online through www.panarchism.info/ are also = dealing=20 with monetary freedom as an important precondition for achieving = peace in=20 freedom a.s.a.p.
 
Thomas Greco also produces a website on this subject. Another one, = by=20 others, more liberal towards all monetary freedom approaches and longer = texts on=20 them, is in the process of being set up by 2 of my contacts
 
What made you write to me?
 
PIOT, John Zube,
(Panarchy In Our Time, or: To each the government or = non-governmental=20 society of his or her dreams. - That also applies to payment and value = standard=20 communities.)
 
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING
 
& Research Centre for Monetary & Financial Freedom = Libertarian=20 Peace Plans, Panarchism, Productive Coops, Free Trade, Libertarian = Defence,=20 Liberation Revolution & Militias, Alternative Media & = Enlightenment=20 Options, a Libertarian Encyclopaedia, Archive of Ideas, Bibliographies,=20 Abstracts, Indexes, Definitions, Classification Schemes, Directories, = Reviews,=20 Slogans for Liberty Encyclopaedia, Refutations Encyclopaedia, etc., on = the road=20 towards a complete and permanent Libertarian Library, Publishing and = Information=20 Service, making optimal use of all affordable and powerful alternative = media so=20 far vastly under-utilised for libertarian texts, like microfiche, floppy = disks,=20 CD-ROMs and DVDs, to bring about a genuinely cultural revolution &=20 sufficient enlightenment, together with PIOT: Panarchy In Our Time or: = To each=20 the government or non-governmental society of his or her dreams.
 
John Zube, LIBERTARIAN MICROFICHE PUBLISHING, P.O. Box 52 or 35 = Oxley St.,=20 Berrima, NSW 2577, Australia, e-mail: jzube@acenet.com.au Tel. (02) 48 = 771 436.=20 No FAX!
Main website: www.acenet.com.au/~jzube It = lists=20 alphabetically the authors of PEACE PLANS Nos. 1-1545 & offers and=20 introduction to microfilming & some essays on monetary freedom and=20 panarchism. Total nearly 5 Mbs.
Supplementary lists, alphabetically = and by=20 PEACE PLANS numbers, covering PEACE PLANS 1546 - 1768, on 5.8 Mbs, are = now=20 available at www.butterbach.net/lmp/ = Cross=20 references in these lists are still very incomplete.
 
LMP's main website offers a 2,000 pages guide to the PEACE PLANS = issues=20 that LMP has produced since 1977, containing, on about 500,000 pages,=20 libertarian and anarchist books, pamphlets, magazines, newsletters,=20 dissertations, bibliographies, directories, indexes, essays & = articles,=20 letter, review & leaflet collections, etc., with an average of over = 300=20 pages per microfiche: $ 1 cash each, post-free for orders of at least = 10, or 2=20 International Reply Coupons or $ 2 other non-cash, with small cheques = not=20 accepted.
Has any other individual published more freedom texts, = more=20 cheaply, in any medium?
Many of the PEACE PLANS in the Supplementary = List do=20 contain material compiled from websites, with their links. My thus = recorded=20 survey of libertarian sites is still very incomplete and I would prefer = to see=20 such a compilation on CD-ROMs.
 
Lists on the libertarian CD-ROM project are on www.butterbach.net/project= .htm=20 If you want to be entered in an update list, please contact me by = e-mail, with=20 the entry you prefer for yourself.
 
An alphabetical compilation on free banking or monetary freedom, = 2.6 Mbs,=20 is available on www.butterbach/freebank.htm =20 A small step towards an encyclopaedia on Free Banking. Your entries are=20 needed!
 
All of  PEACE PLANS 1-20 & 61-63, 183 & 399-401 are = now=20 available in small batches via e-mail, until they can be offered on a = website or=20 CD-ROM or both.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 aqohmrd@yahoo.co.uk
To: JZUBE
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:01 = PM
Subject: Re:

Hello
I want invite you to new sponsor e-goldforum ! =
Please wisit egoldforum.org for=20 more information
Thank you ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C313A8.0D565120--